A recent article entitled “Does an Author Have To Live It to Write It” over at Dear Author prompted a firestorm of impassioned responses–and elicited a strong reaction from us powerpuff girls as well. So, we decided to pool our efforts and have a discussion about writing and writers.
With questions such as:
Does a reader care what the author’s background is?
Do you care if a male author is writing a romance or if a female author is writing a gay romance where the two main characters are men?
How important is it for authors to write what they know?
Is it okay to break certain rules in romance?
Part I is over at Katie(babs) aka Blossum’s place.
Here is the conclusion of our discussion!
*Please note*: the only attack here is to our keyboards and the only defense is that of our own opinions.
Katie: I have to admit that years ago I used to be biased and never read male authors, especially those who tried their hand at writing romance. I assumed that only women could write romance because men wouldn’t understand the side of the heroine and their feelings. Then I started thinking, wouldn’t that same bias go towards women writing romance because how would they know what the male counterpoint, the hero, was feeling or going through, because the author isn’t a man?
I find it very interesting that MM romance is mainly geared towards women and the majority of authors for MM romance are women, with the exception of a few I have read. Does that mean these female authors shouldn’t write MM romance because they will never know what it is to be like as a gay male? Again, the same can go towards male authors who write romance since they can never know the female side of the romance.
Thea, you bring up a very interesting point about the science fiction genre. This genre is evolving to introduce more romance in those stories, and I think hard core fans of sci-fi are disgruntled because they feel that romance or a love story has no place in sci-fi, that it cheapens the genre. Why can’t a love story be placed within a sci-fi novel and embrace authors that do so, such as Linnea Sinclair, Ann Aguirre, Susan Grant or Catherine Asaro? Also, Ana brings up a great point that these authors haven’t been to other planets or have aliens as their friends, but they can write some fine books about these creatures. Their imagination makes these books very believable and perhaps they have done some research on what they are writing, but most importantly because they write so well, essential they are writing what they know.
Ana: I also think that it is important to note the obvious: that there are as many types of writers as there are types of readers. In that sense, what does exactly a reader want from a book? Does it matter whether a writer does research or not? Is a male of a female? Do most readers care about that – or most of us just want to have fun while reading a book? As a reader myself, I have to say, for me it depends. Sometimes I can be so involved in a book , I couldn’t care less about historical research or not for example – I can and will suspend disbelief. But there are also those times when I get to the end of a book and I read the author’s notes and I realize the amount of thought and effort that was put into that story and it does make it better for me – I can mention from the top of my head, Lisa Kleypas and her recent contemporary Blue-Eyed Devil whose heroine had an abusive husband – Lisa Kleypas went to great lengths to get the dynamics of that relationship right. Similarly, if the prose is not to my liking or the plot doesn’t work – it matters not if the author knows everything that there is to know about Nascar car races for example.
Thea: I don’t really have too much more to say than perhaps pose a hypothetical question to my fellow power puffs, and to any readers.
Let’s say you read a book, published under a female author name. Since the majority of the discussion has been about romance, let’s say it’s a romance novel. The heroine comes across as complex, layered, and wholly believable. The story is superb. Then, once you have finished the book–entertained and sated–you later find out that the author was in fact a man.
Does this diminish at all from your impression of the novel?
My answer would be, of course not. Why would it? I don’t care if the author pretended to be an Indiana housewife, mother of seven kids and was actually an iron welder named Moe who secretly wrote romance novels by night. If I enjoyed the fictional work, the characters were completely believable, and the story entertained me, then the author could be a purple alien and I would not care.
I’m curious to see what others would say though. Would you feel betrayed? Played? Would, all of a sudden, you re-evaluate the ‘authenticity’ and ‘femininity’ of the heroine?
Historically, some women have published under pen names or pretended to be men, or have androgynous names in order to get their books out there and sell. It seems like a grossly inappropriate double standard to discriminate against men who might do the same–especially if the quality of their work is excellent.
Katie: Honestly, I preferred it when I had no clue about what an author looked like or their whole life story. I also preferred not knowing if, such and such author, was writing under too many pen names to count. When I started reading the In Death series, I had no clue that they were being written by Nora Roberts. Someone had recommended Naked in Death by this new crime author called JD Robb. For years after, I had no clue that JD Robb and Nora Roberts were the same person! And, I am not a huge fan of Nora’s contemporaries, but even when I found out that she was JD Robb, I still continued to read the In Death series because the writing and the characters were ones I enjoyed. Another case was e-book gay romance MM author, JM Synder. When I read one of Synder’s stories, I thought Synder was a man and was surprised that I was wrong. I picked up Synder in the first place because I thought it would be interesting to read a gay romance written by a man, and even after I found out that Synder was a woman, that didn’t take away from the overall enjoyment of the story. The same would go for Lisa Marie Rice, who so many assumed was a man writing under a female alias. For one, if that was so, I say more power to Rice. Some people were so bothered that Rice was not being honest. They couldn’t believe a woman could write such insight on a male character such as her heroes who have Army experience. I was also surprised by the animosity they had toward Rice, and because of that, they wanted to punish Rice buy not buying her books any longer because they felt she lied to them. And the funny thing is, Lisa Marie Rice is a woman. And how do I know? Because I met the author in person.
Ana: The way I see it, there are two different issues at hand here: one is the honesty factor. How people are bothered by not knowing who the author is, his/her genre and perceive that as a lie. I only ask why does it matter? I cannot see why would it matter. I think it has more to do with readers’ expectations as to what consists good writing than anything else. To have such expectations just because a writer writes a certain way that he MUST be male or female, in my opinion demeans the writer, the person as if this isn’t all about human beings as a whole, as if insights into the human condition depend solely on genre. .
The other issue is the preposterous idea that a woman could not write good male characters and vice-versa. Oh by all means then henceforth all female writers can ONLY write female characters ok?
It has been said all over the place already but it’s worth repeating : it’s about the writing not the writer. And it’s FICTION, people.
Thea: What Ana said. It’s about the writing, not the writer. I can keep saying this until I’m blue in the face.
Judging or refusing to read a book because of the gender of the author (or, in some cases, the presumed gender of the author–which verges on the idiotic, as Kate and Ana have pointed out) is as wrongly prejudicial as say generalizing the whole of the romance genre based on some hideously cheesy, mantitty covers.
Katie: If only we could continue to discuss about manttity covers and their contribution to the romance genre! O_O
Ana and Thea: Indeed.
So, what do you think about it? Do you have any answers to the questions posed?
14 Comments
Renee
November 20, 2008 at 10:13 pmHaving read over some of the DA post and ensuing drama, I am left with a couple of thoughts:
1. I am put in mind of the Jon Lovitz SNL character The Master Thespian, and his catch phrase, “It’s acting!” In the same way, the sex of an author and his/her credibility is less important than the writing. (Ergo, “It’s writing!”) The whole point of fiction (from my own reader’s perspective) is to take me out of myself and provide me with a journey that I wouldn’t otherwise have. Who wrote it is secondary to that experience.
2. There are innumerable examples of male writers capturing a female on paper deftly, as well as female writers doing the same for men. My current favorite examples would be: Alexander McCall Smith’s Isabel Dalhousie series. She is a 42 year old woman. AMS is definitely not, but I am. His portrayal is amazing.
3. Writing is an art and a craft. A good writer should be able to convince me that what I’m writing is true to to story. The writer should have the ability to imagine (the art) and convey the story (the craft). The comment that had the most resonance with me over at Dear Author was (paraphrased): It’s not ‘write what you know’ that’s important, but ‘know what you write’. In other words, research and craft go hand in hand with imagination.
4. There is value in direct personal experience, it can inform the fiction and give the reader an experience they wouldn’t otherwise have. HOWEVER, direct personal experience isn’t necessary to providing the reader with a good reading experience. When I read M/M fiction, I don’t care who has written it. Man or woman. I just want a good story.
Another example: Diana Gabaldon, author of the incredible Outlander series as an American writer. She hadn’t even visited Scotland until after she wrote Outlander. Yet, she is able to take us to Scotland and make me (the reader) feel I’m there. Because she’s a talented writer.
I have enjoyed reading the DA blog and while I didn’t agree with the opinion in the original post, the author has a right to her opinion. What I did take exception to was throwing an author’s name around in a speculative fashion to make a point. It was unnecessary and disappointing.
Sorry this is so long. I guess we’ve all had an interesting couple of days in blogland. Thanks for the interesting dicussion here and at Katiebabs! 😉
Tracy
November 20, 2008 at 10:47 pmI have no bias when it comes to authors gender. Thea to answer your question: If I find out that the author is the opposite sex than originally thought does it diminish my impression of a fanttastic book? Absolutely not. It’s about the writing – not the writer.
I also think it’s ridiculous to say that woman can’t write men properly or well because they don’t know what they’re feeling. Aren’t most, not all, but most romance novelists women? Aren’t they the ones who are writing these incredible heroes that we all love and want in our huts? They may not be men but they’re doing a damn fine job of writing them.
I also have to say (I know, I’m jumping around, sorry) that I love the fact that Thea brought up Shakespeare. He wrote wonderful women that have stood the test of time. Please tell me people don’t read Shakespeare because he’s a man.
Tia Nevitt
November 21, 2008 at 4:51 amDoesn’t Nicholas Sparks write novels with lots of romance? What about Robert James Waller, the author of Bridges of Madison County? Among the classics, we have Walter Scott, Victor Hugo and Charles Dickens, all who wove wonderful romances in their stories.
I enjoy it when I see a man trying romance. But sometimes, they do try to get too gritty with the romance, as the author did in Mirrored Heavens.
Katiebabs a.k.a KB
November 21, 2008 at 5:17 amAnother male author who has wonderful insight towards women is Stephen King. That man is so in tune with his feminine side. Read Lisey’s Story and you will see what I am talking about.
I had no idea Diana G didn’t visit Scotland till after she wrote Outlander! That is a great talent.
Kati
November 21, 2008 at 6:51 amWell, as you guys know, my all time favorite book was written by a husband and wife team. I can discern no difference in the book where I can tell that a woman wrote this passage, and a man that.
I honestly could not possibly care less about the gender of the author. I care about what they put on the page. On top of that, I feel no sense of entitlement to know what the author’s “real life” proclivities are. I don’t care if they are gay or straight or bi. I don’t care if they are a man who dances around the house in red peep-toed shoes (except maybe to ask, “Oh! Where did you get those shoes?”) I honestly don’t care. I care about the end product.
In the end, I’m a consumer. If the product is good, I’ll pimp it out to everyone I know who reads romance. If the product isn’t good, I’m likely to say why it is that it didn’t work for me.
But the idea that I as a reader am entitled to know *anything* at all about the author’s personal life is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I’m entitled to read the product that they publish. I’m entitled to love it or hate it and I’m allowed to say why. And I’m permitted to never ever buy them again if I hate the product. That’s the end of my rights as a reader, as far as I’m concerned. The author owes me nothing.
Thea
November 21, 2008 at 9:21 amRenee–What a thoughtful, intelligent post.
First, LOL at “It’s acting!” HAH! This perfectly captures the level and tone of exasperation Ana and Katie and I had, shooting emails back and forth. It’s writing, indeed.
You make some excellent (concise!) points, and I agree with you on all counts. I love the Diana Gabaldon example you u se as well–I had no idea that prior to writing Outlander she had never been to Scotland! I went this year (to Culloden, Clava Cairns, Fort William, Inverness) and could not help but be amazed at how perfectly she captured the essence of the setting (not to mention the emotional gravitas of some of these locations). Now that is the mark of an author who is brilliant at both the art and craft side of her writing, as you so aptly put it.
ave enjoyed reading the DA blog and while I didn’t agree with the opinion in the original post, the author has a right to her opinion.
Agreed! We (Ana and I) probably would have posted in the comments thread over there to participate in discussion, but it’s so far off the original topic (and…well, nasty), we thought it would be easier and more effective to organize our thoughts in a separate post. What anyone chooses to read is a personal decision and experience, and we are all entitled to our opinions. Although, I will say that one’s limiting a reading experience based on the gender of an author seems to be shortchanging oneself. There is so much rich, beautiful literature out there, by both men and women. Or perhaps purple aliens, robots, whatever… ;P
Tracy–That is how I feel as well.
I also think it’s ridiculous to say that woman can’t write men properly or well because they don’t know what they’re feeling. Aren’t most, not all, but most romance novelists women?
Exactly! I have just finished reading Julia Quinn’s The Viscount Who Loved Me, and the hero of the novel came across as a wholly believable man to me (based on my perceptions of men, especially those with daddy issues). Heck, Julia Quinn took it upon herself to write an author’s note following the novel, talking to her female readers about how Anthony’s problems and demons concerning his father and mortality is a very male centric issue. Certainly there were points in the book where I wanted to reach in and slap Anthony silly, but isn’t this just testament to how well Ms. Quinn wrote a very layered and genuine male hero character?
As for Shakespeare, he has written some of my favorite all time heroines (Beatrice and Viola–two of the strongest female characters I have ever had the honor of reading/watching). And this is from a man in the 16th century!
Tia–Great examples. Alongside the Brontes, the Margaret Mitchells, the Loretta Chases, there are some classic and iconic male-written romances as well. Just as, I would argue, there are classic female-written fantasy/sf works.
Personally, I don’t mind the gritty :p (Then again, my idea of a fun friday night involves movies or video games with copious amounts of gore. Preferably with zombies integrated in some way.)
I think you bring up another very interesting discussion point: should there be a differentiation between choosing not to read male (or female)-authored books based on content, versus choosing not to read based on gender of the author? Someone that reads Julia Quinn for example might not be inclined to read Stephen King. But to me, that has more to do with the content of the books, rather than the gender of the author (e.g. “I don’t read gruesome scary stories” versus “I don’t read stories written by men because I think they will be gruesome and scary”). Thoughts?
Katie–I haven’t read Lisey’s Story yet! I do think in King’s early work his female characters are less well written–but then, take The Dark Tower books. Susannah/Odetta/Detta is one of the most badass, awesome female characters ever–and she’s also sympathetic, a mother, and above all, a woman. Bravo, Stephen King.
Kati–
On top of that, I feel no sense of entitlement to know what the author’s “real life” proclivities are.
and
But the idea that I as a reader am entitled to know *anything* at all about the author’s personal life is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I’m entitled to read the product that they publish. I’m entitled to love it or hate it and I’m allowed to say why. And I’m permitted to never ever buy them again if I hate the product. That’s the end of my rights as a reader, as far as I’m concerned. The author owes me nothing.
WORD! Authors assuming pen names is perfectly understandable for me (especially in today’s age of instant information, internet psychos, paparazzi, and obsession with the cult of personality). As a reader, I don’t consider myself *owed* by the author anything, other than a damn good book. Establishing a persona to sell books, keep a real identity secret, or just because they think a name sounds cool or whatever!–I don’t care. Just entertain me and give me my money’s worth, and I’m a happy camper.
Thanks everyone for your awesome comments. It’s really interesting to see where people fall on the spectrum!
kim
November 21, 2008 at 10:18 amI read some of the comments over a DA and I just didn’t get it when some commentors said they would feel a sense of deception if the author wasn’t the gender they had preceived the author to be before they bought the book. Huh?
If I found out tomorrow that Loretta Chase is really a man, would Lord of Scoundrels still be my favorite book of all freakin’ time? You betcha! I would laugh and shrug and say “Yep, you got me!” But it wouldn’t make me feel played or deceived or ripped off at all. I just wouldn’t care. I didn’t read it in the first place because the author is a woman, I picked it up because it sounded like a good story.
When I choose a book, I really don’t give much thought to the author at all, other than, have I read this author before and if I did, did I like the book. And I think that is the way it should be.
I don’t care if an author is a man, woman, gay, straight, divorced, married or the Miss Haversham of romance.
(Miss Haversham always makes me think of cake. Mmmmmm…cake.)
Renee
November 21, 2008 at 11:20 amThanks for the kind words. I was shocked when I read that tidbit about Diana Gabaldon in
this Publisher’s Weekly interview that’s posted on her site. It makes for great reading!
*deleted previous comment. Here’s the correct link to the article
Karin
November 21, 2008 at 3:10 pmI have to agree that it’s about the writing and not the writer. As long as the story pulls me in, I could care less who the person is who wrote it. I don’t need to know who the author is, if they’re a man or a woman, to enjoy the story they create.
Mariana
November 21, 2008 at 4:27 pmLong time lurker, but wanted to say my 2 pennies.
I think it’s a matter of intent. If a reader intends to read a book by X author because of Y reason, then finds Y reason to be only a front, then reader feels deceived, YMMV. I tend to have no expectations except reading a good story, but not everyone feels the same.
I think also, what happened at DA was that a personal battle was taking place that seemingly was not what Jane intended when writing that piece. She mentioned multiple authors that were ultimately ignored in the comments section.
On a personal note, it did keep me from dying of boredom at work 🙂
Jessica
November 22, 2008 at 11:21 amThanks to you guys and Katiebabs for relocating the discussion to a safer place.
I agree with everyone here — it doesn’t matter to me who wrote what if it works.
Loretta Chase never says “I am a woman so I can write women”, or “I am hetero so I can write hetero”. So I couldn’t care less whether Chase is female or straight.
However, I would have to say that I would feel cheated IF an author used a persona to claim authenticity about a work, and it turned s/he wasn’t that person.
And I wonder what the market pressures may be on authors to do this very thing.
I agree that the thread at DA was allowed to degenerate into uselessness — way before it was cut short. It made me think about blogger responsibilities, and whether they were met.
Jessica
November 22, 2008 at 4:11 pmActually, I have been thinking some more about this.
While it *may* speak negatively of the character of an author who invents a fake persona in *some* cases, the fact that it’s irrelevant to the writing makes me think it really shouldn’t matter to readers at all.
Thea
November 22, 2008 at 6:43 pmKim–thanks for your opinions! I could not agree with you more.
When I choose a book, I really don’t give much thought to the author at all, other than, have I read this author before and if I did, did I like the book.
Definitely–this is usually the only criteria I take under consideration! Even at that, if it’s an author whose work I wasn’t crazy about, I’m usually still gonna give them another chance if a book sounds interesting to me.
I will say though, if I’m reading a book where I feel like the historical research/setting *really* impresses me, I’ll flip to the back cover to see about the author–for example, about halfway through the first Amelia Peabody book, I was so impressed with the setting and Egyptology (even though I really don’t know too much about the subject), I skimmed the author’s bio–to see that she has a PhD in Egyptology. Which makes sense to me, since the history seems incredibly detailed–but had Elizabeth Peters (the author–writing with a pen name, I might add) been an ice cream vendor who had never studied ancient Egypt or British excavations in the 1800s, that would not make a whit of difference to me.
Renee–Thank you for the link 🙂 On a slightly off topic note, I cannot wait for An Echo in the Bone!
Karin–Thanks for commenting 🙂 I remember these books I used to love in elementary and middle school by “Avi” (The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle, Blue Heron, etc), whom I had always thought was some faceless, anonymous author–but whose books I loved and would eagerly snatch up. I actually just recently found out that Avi is in fact Edward Irving Wortis! I was shocked, not so much that Avi was a man, but because I was so used to thinking of Avi as simply anonymous. And, as you might have guessed, I still love The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle, and all of his other works I had cherished as a young girl just as much today, knowing now who the author is.
Mariana–Hey, welcome! Thanks for de-lurking 😉
I think it’s a matter of intent. If a reader intends to read a book by X author because of Y reason, then finds Y reason to be only a front, then reader feels deceived, YMMV. I tend to have no expectations except reading a good story, but not everyone feels the same.
You make a good point. I suppose the disconnect for me personally is, like you say, that I don’t pick up a book with expectations from the author (other than to enjoy what I read). The fiction genre allows an author to write about anything they want, and transport readers to new, strange, different worlds. I love the freedom of reading anything and everything–be it a heroine slaying dragons, or a love story between two men.
That said, I suppose I can see why someone might feel betrayed or hurt..although I can’t really identify with it.
I think also, what happened at DA was that a personal battle was taking place that seemingly was not what Jane intended when writing that piece.
Agreed–which is a shame. The original post was hardly discussed if at all in the comments.
On a personal note, it did keep me from dying of boredom at work 🙂
LOL! It’s kind of like watching The Real Housewives of Atlanta or something. You know you shouldn’t be so interested, but…it’s so hard to turn away.
Jessica–the comments section certainly seemed to evolve into something very unpleasant and out of control. Like when water’s thrown on Gizmo in Gremlins, then they all start partying hard, eating tons of food after midnight and jumping into swimming pools and such.
However, I would have to say that I would feel cheated IF an author used a persona to claim authenticity about a work, and it turned s/he wasn’t that person.
And I wonder what the market pressures may be on authors to do this very thing.
The claiming authenticity part is tricky. One of the names in the DA comments section that was discussed was the guy who wrote A Million Little Pieces (the fabricated memoirs). In this case, I’d agree there is a level of conflict since the book was marketed as nonfiction memoirs when in fact it was fiction…which is a step beyond creating a fictional persona to write a completely fictional story. In this case, I agree that authenticity is a problem…
But even in this case, even though it doesn’t speak very highly of the author, the book on its own if examined as a work of fiction should not be diminished by external controversy. As you say…
While it *may* speak negatively of the character of an author who invents a fake persona in *some* cases, the fact that it’s irrelevant to the writing makes me think it really shouldn’t matter to readers at all.
I wholeheartedly agree. Especially in the realm of fiction, where the author’s personality, orientation, gender or race makes no difference to the quality of their story.
Mariana
November 25, 2008 at 1:30 pmThe Real Housewives…. I promised myself I wouldn’t watch, then they played the marathon. Another broken promise 😐 Can’t wait for tonight’s reunion 🙂